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Hardware General (vesti/konferencije/glasine)

Wendell sa Level1Tech-a je odradio cetvoromesecno istrazivanje o nestabilnosti 13th i 14th gen i9 procesora. Od dva dev-a je nabavio database-ove crash-ova igara i dobio je direkt info od firmi koje kupuju stotine/hiljade procesora za gaming servere.

Ukratko, raspad. I developeri i server firme koje koriste 9i procesore se zale na intel, jako velik % procesora imaju probleme i koji posle par meseci pocinju da budu nestabilni.






I dva dev-a koja su otvoreno pocela da pricaju o nestabilnim Intel procesorima

Intel is selling defective 13-14th Gen CPUs​

My team at Alderon Games, working on the multiplayer dinosaur survival game Path of Titans, has been encountering significant problems with Intel CPU stability. These issues, including crashes, instability, and memory corruption, are confined to the 13th and 14th generation processors. Despite all released microcode, BIOS, and firmware updates, the problem remains unresolved.
We have identified failures in five main areas:
  • End Customers: Thousands of crashes on Intel CPUs on 13th and 14th Gen CPUs in our crash reporting tools.
  • Official Dedicated Game Servers: Experiencing constant crashes, taking entire servers down.
  • Development Team: Developers using these CPUs face frequent instability while building and working on the game. It can also cause SSD and memory corruption.
  • Game Server Providers: Hosting community servers with persistent crashing issues.
  • Benchmarking Tools: Decompression and memory tests unrelated to Path of Titans also fail.
Over the last 3–4 months, we have observed that CPUs initially working well deteriorate over time, eventually failing. The failure rate we have observed from our own testing is nearly 100%, indicating it's only a matter of time before affected CPUs fail. This issue is gaining attention from news outlets and has been noted by Fortnite and RAD Game Tools, which powers decompression behind Unreal Engine.
Users are also receiving misleading error messages about running out of video driver memory, despite having sufficient memory.

Actions We Are Taking​

To prevent further harm to our game, we are implementing the following measures:
  • Server Migration: We are swapping all our servers to AMD, which experience 100 times fewer crashes compared to Intel CPUs that were found to be defective.
  • Hosting Recommendations: We advise anyone hosting Path of Titans servers or selling game servers to avoid purchasing or using 13th and 14th gen Intel CPUs.
  • In-Game Notifications: We are adding a popup message in-game to inform users with these processors about the issue. Many users are currently unaware of why their game is crashing and what they can do about it.
Click to expand...

alderongames.com

Intel is selling defective CPUs - Alderon Games

We have been encountering significant problems with Intel CPU stability. Despite all released microcode, BIOS, and firmware updates, the problem remains unresolved.
alderongames.com alderongames.com



  • Warframe Staff
  • StaffBadge.png.9ec8c83dcde7e25b512e516d870d3f08.png
Posted Tuesday at 02:10 PM
While investigating crashes in Warframe we came across a particular series that were not crashing in our code (they were crashing in nvgpucomp64.dll, a component of Nvidia drivers). After aggregating hundreds of reports from helpful players we discovered a pattern: almost all were coming from systems with 13th and 14th generation Intel processors.
nvgpucomp64.dll crashes.png
Click to expand...
forums.warframe.com

Instability on recent Intel Processors

While investigating crashes in Warframe we came across a particular series that were not crashing in our code (they were crashing in nvgpucomp64.dll, a component of Nvidia drivers). After aggregating hundreds of reports from helpful players we discovered a pattern: almost all were coming from sys...
forums.warframe.com forums.warframe.com


Intel jos nije nasao resenje, samo su proizvodjacima ploca naredili da smanje OC. Ali i serverske ploce koje guraju i9 sa 125W i sporom memorijom imaju probleme.
 
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To u igrama nije slucaj, tako da nas uglavnom ne kaci nista.
Ustvari jos bolje je sto se ovo desilo, sad ce lepo cena i9 da ide dole, pa lepo da ga uzmem, posto je i dalje najbolji proc za igre koji postoji.
 
Nema potrebe uzimati K procesore, 'zaključan' proc i chipset su sasvim dovoljni kako za desktope tako i za laptope.
 
2CR4ZY said:
To u igrama nije slucaj, tako da nas uglavnom ne kaci nista.
Click to expand...
Kao da nisi gledao sta kacim zadnjih par meseci.

Igraci su prvi pokrenuli online kritike pocetkom godine. Unreal 5 igre su pogotovo pogodjene, kao i igre sa dosta dekompresije, rada sa memorijom, i komplacije shadera [i drugi programi i radnje koje dosta opterete procesor]. Poseban je problem sto i9 procesori koji u pocetku rade OK mogu da postanu nestabilni kasnije.

Cela poenta prvog videa of Wendell-a i ovih postova od game developera je da vide dosta vece prisustvo crash-ova kod svojih igraca [kao i kod koriscenja tih i9 procesora u razvoju igara i serverskim zadatcima].

Jedina preporuka za sve koji se spremaju da uzmu novi i9 K/KF/KS je da se spreme unapred za mogucu reklamaciju.
 
Ne moze vise da se nateze ista arhitektura svake generacije i ocekivati da se ne predje nikad threshold gde sve pocne da se raspada. Ono sto je znak da je problem dubok je prvo sto intel ne moze da ga patchuje softverski, usput i odbija da direktno prizna da postoji, a drugo da nemaju neku bolju arhitekturu u pipelinu, inace bi bio PR blast na sve strane.
Opet, nece ovo mnogo uticati na njihovu zacementiranu poziciju, ne postoji nikakav boeing nivo raspada koji bi njih gurnuo ispod 50% trzista, tako da bez brige za fanove, oni i dalje mogu da misle da je najbolji gaming procesor onaj koji najbolje gura ps3 emulator 😂
 
Nisam gledao u zadnje vreme, zar nije ranije bilo reci da je za PS3 emulaciju itekako podobno da CPU podrzava AVX512?

Koliko se ja secam, intel 11th gen je bio poslednji koji je imao nativni AVX512? Posle toga su sa 12th gen smanjili core-ove da bi povecali radnu frekvenciju, a 13th i 14th gen su bile blage varijacije sa sve vise i vise potrosnje struje.

AMD je krenuo da stavlja AVX512 sa Zen4, videcemo kako ce sada ispasti RCPS3 sa Zen5 gde su najavili znacajna poboljsanja.

edit- https://www.hwcooling.net/en/amd-confirms-zen-5-details-6-alus-full-performance-avx-512en/


edit - izasli i prvi benchmarkovi za 9950X, stize u prodaju pre kraja meseca pa ce biti lavina opisa uskoro
wccftech.com

AMD Ryzen 9 9950X "Zen 5" CPU Tested At 230W Power Limit, Up To 28% Faster Than 7950X & 34% Faster Than 14900K

AMD's Ryzen 9 9950X "Zen 5" CPU boasts incredible performance at a TDP of just 160W, blazing past both the Core i9-14900K & Ryzen 9 7950X.
wccftech.com wccftech.com
 
Potvrdjen poboljsan AVX512 na Zen5, Zen4 je imao 2x 256bit.

Videcemo kakav ce biti napredak u RCPS3, skok u odnosu na Ryzen 5000 je bio ogroman [2x].

emulation-ps3.png
 


GN je pre dolaska Zen5 opisa koji ce biti poredjeni sa konkurencijom izbacio video o trenutnim Intel problemima, imaju dodatne podatke od velikih Intel kupaca [jedan im je dao stats za svojih 8 miliona 13th gen procesora].

Najnoviji moguci uzrok za pojavu nestabilnosti je nepravilno upotrebljen anti-oksidirajuci sloj Talium Nitrida [TaN] u unutrasnjim slojevima procesora u mestima gde se nalaze vertikalni spojevi bakra [vias]. Ova fizicka greska dovodi do randomizrane pojave oksidacije bakra koja sprecava rad procesora na svojim najvecima brzinama, i u ekstremnim slucajevima dovodi cak i do gresaka pri boot-u sistema. Softverski fix koji bi samo ublazio probleme je obaranje frekvencije rada, ali sam problem je fizicki sa oksidacijom koja postaje sve gora i gora. Intel takodje razmatra da oficijelno spusti dozvoljenu brzinu RAM-a.

GN je poslao procesore na skupu analizu. Ne savetuju kupovinu 13th i 14th gen procesora dok se Intel ne oglasi sa resenjem. Takodje, koristice stara podesavanja za CPU benchmarke dok Intel ne ponudi nova.

ciHhYp1.png

Da li ovo "still" znaci da i dalje prave 14th gen sa ovim problemom? 😬
 
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Sa strane kupca mislim da je najlakse mnogo se ne udubljivati, suprotna strana nudi vise za iste pare i bez ovog problema.Na duze staze je ipak zabrinjavajuce, ako intel ne resi problem do kraja gena, amd ce nam odrati kozu, mozda cak i bumpuju cenu sad odmah, nije ispod njih
 
Cenu za Zen5 jos nisu objavili iako je premijera za 10 dana, a X3D stize za koji mesec.
 
Intel se oglasio.

Najavili su micro code update koji ce srediti koriscenje struje u 13th i 14th gen procesorima koji su dovodili do gubitka stabilnosti, i onda su naknadno dodali da su tokom 2023. imali problem sa oksidacijom koji su resili. Update stize sredinom avgusta, jos se ne zna hoce li biti preko windows update-a ili novog bios-a.

Ali vredno je reci da ovo mozda nece resiti sve probleme.

Nema naznake koliko ovaj patch uticati na performanse [verovatno ne puno], nema naznake da li ce "osteceni" procesori biti vraceni u zivot [verovatno ne], nema naznake da ce pomoci korisnicima da identifikuju da li im je procesor iz batch-a koji "oksidira"....



www.tomshardware.com

Intel finally announces a solution for CPU crashing and instability problems — claims elevated voltages are the root cause; patch coming by mid-August [Updated]

Patch is on the way.
www.tomshardware.com www.tomshardware.com

www.tomshardware.com

Unreal Engine supervisor at ModelFarm blasts 50% failure rate with Intel chips — company switching to AMD's Ryzen 9 9950X, praises single-threaded performance

Criticism increases.
www.tomshardware.com www.tomshardware.com



Leaked internal reports allegedly reveal Intel's instability problems are not over — elevated voltages could be only one of the causes of CPU crashing​


Intel announced a few days ago that elevated voltage levels are the root cause of Raptor Lake's instability issues. The company will address this problem with a microcode update in mid-August. However, German publication Igor's Lab claims that Intel didn't share the whole story and is still investigating other root causes of Raptor Lake instability.

According to the publication's sources, elevated voltages aren't the true root cause—or perhaps the only root cause. The claims only somewhat contradict Intel's official statement, which mentions elevated operating voltage as the root cause of the issues but does say that validation work is ongoing to ensure the microcode patch addresses the entirety of the issue.

Igor's report also highlighted details of the elevated voltage behavior causing Raptor Lake instability and what precisely Intel is adding to its mid-August microcode update. Intel has purportedly observed a significant increase in minimum operating voltage (Vmin) across multiple cores on unstable chips returned from customers. The elevated minimum operating voltage is purportedly caused by the "elevated voltage, high frequency, and elevated temperature" conditions that Intel has observed in chips that have been returned.

This unsafe minimum operating voltage affects the chip even at idle conditions. Intel has observed sporadic elevated voltages when Raptor Lake chips resume low-power states to execute background operations before entering a low-power state again.

To fix the issue, Intel's microcode update will reportedly limit VID requests above 1.55V to rectify the voltage-related problems. This change will not impact performance much. However, Intel says that further analysis is required to see whether or not the mid-August microcode update will fully mitigate all instability issues due to the reasons above.

Here's a snippet of the purportedly leaked communications given to Igor's Lab:

– Intel observes a significant increase to the minimum operating voltage (Vmin) across multiple cores on returned affected processors from customers.
– This increase is similar in outcome to parts subjected to elevated voltage and temperature conditions for reliability testing.
– Factors contributing to this Vmin increase include elevated voltage, high frequency, and elevated temperature.
– Even under idle conditions at relatively cool temperatures, sporadic elevated voltages are observed when the processor is resumed from low power states in order to service background operations before entering a low power state again.
– At a sufficiently high voltage, these short-duration events can accumulate over time, contributing to the increase in Vmin.
– Intel analysis indicates a need to reduce the maximum voltage requested by the processor in order to reduce or eliminate accumulated exposure to voltages which may result in an increase to Vmin.
– While Intel has confirmed elevated voltages impact the increase in Vmin, investigation continues in order to fully understand root cause and address other potential aspects of this issue.

- This microcode update, once validated and released, may not address existing systems in the field with instability symptoms.
- Systems which continue to exhibit symptoms associated with this issue should have the processor returned to Intel for RMA.
Click to expand...



www.tomshardware.com

Leaked internal reports allegedly reveal Intel's instability problems are not over — elevated voltages could be only one of the causes of CPU crashing

Intel purportedly doesn't know if the mid-August microcode update will fully rectify Raptor Lake's stability issues.
www.tomshardware.com www.tomshardware.com
 
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AMD je upravo potvrdio da prvi batch procesora nije stigao da prodje kroz sve testove za premijeru 31. jula, i da ce odloziti launch nedelju dana. Nisu nasli probleme, samo im fali vremena da finalizuju sve.


This is not because AMD’s found any issues with the actual chips, spokesperson Stacy MacDiarmid tells The Verge. Rather, AMD discovered some of its chips didn’t go through all of the proper testing procedures, and the company wants to make sure they do.


"We appreciate the excitement around Ryzen 9000 series processors. During final checks, we found the initial production units that were shipped to our channel partners did not meet our full quality expectations. Out of an abundance of caution and to maintain the highest quality experiences for every Ryzen user, we are working with our channel partners to replace the initial production units with fresh units. As a result, there will be a short delay in retail availability. The Ryzen 7 9700X and Ryzen 5 9600X processors will now go on sale on August 8th and the Ryzen 9 9950X and Ryzen 9 9900X processors will go on-sale on August 15th. We pride ourselves in providing a high-quality experience for every Ryzen user, and we look forward to our fans having a great experience with the new Ryzen 9000 series."
www.theverge.com

AMD is slightly delaying its Ryzen 9000 desktop CPUs ‘out of an abundance of caution’

From July to August.
www.theverge.com www.theverge.com


Bolje je ovako nego da ih tech revieweri pljuju [i secaju se toga godinama] zbog losih proizvoda na premijeri. :D
 
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